middle east. >> you're a puppet. >> that's true. when you have nothing else, you stoop to attacks rather than deal with the subject. >> sean: as always, thank you for being with us. let not your heart be troubled. greta is next. see you tomorrow night. >> greta: tonight, did it backfire? >> we are significantly troubled by many of the answers that we got and some that we didn't get concerning evidence that was overwhelming leading up the attack on our consulate. >> i'm more troubled today, knowing, having met with the acting director of the cia and ambassador rice, because it's certainly clear from the beginning that they knew that those with ties to al-qaeda were involved in the attack on the embassy. >> i specifically asked her

whether at any point prior to going on those sunday morning television shows she was briefed or urged to say certain things by anybody in the white house related to the campaign or political operations. she said no. she was not given messaging points at all by the white house prior to her appearance on those sunday morning shows. >> it's clear the information she gave the american people was incorrect when she said that it was a spontaneous demonstration triggered by a hateful video. it was not. and there was compelling evidence at the time that that was certainly not the case. >> i'm more concerned now than i was before that the 16 september explanation about how four americans died in benghazi, libya, by ambassador rice i think does not do justice to the

reality at the time, and in hindsight clearly was completely wrong. >> there are no unanswered questions about ambassador rice's appearance on sunday shows. the talking points that she used for those appearances that were provided by the intelligence community. those questions have been answered. >> we could have a position where your ambassador to the united nations, you go well beyond unclassified talking points in your daily preparation and responsibility for that job, and that's troubling to me as well. >> all i can say is that the concerns i have are greater today they were before, and we're not even close to getting the basic answers. >> so did we find anything from today's meeting? former u.n. ambassador john bolton joins us. good evening, sir. your thoughts about today's meeting with ambassador rice on capitol hill. >> well, from susan rice's point

of view this meeting was a disaster, an opportunity to try to draw the sting out of the opposition that had been expressed by senator mccain and the others. obviously went in the opposite direction, when you have all three of the senators who participated in the meeting coming out after and saying they have more questions now than they did before. this was a bad meeting. no doubt about it. and i think part of the problem here is the -- is the continued focus by the white house, by susan rice, by people looking at it on these so-called talking points that somebody provided to her. i'll just put it this way based on my own experience in government. nobody who's truly competent rinsereads talking points for ay purpose. if you're good enough to be an official, you don't make up words. you follow policy asset by the president, but the notion you can be a cabinet-level official

and be given talking points that you simply parrot without further question is mind-boggling to me. >> greta: senator harry reid, majority leader, issued a statement tonight, saying they were personal attacks of ambassador rice, but also said she's done nothing wrong. here's what i don't get. no one said she did anything wrong. at least the way i understand it, that she simply didn't do her job, which would be could ask simple question, instead of, like you said, parrot, but instead she's a robot, so is jay carney, just a robot, don't exercise good judgment, ask questions, why do you know that? if the asked those questions, ty were lied to, we don't know. it's not that they're bad people, but don't have good judgment to ask good questions. >> you can be the tool of your bureaucracy -- i've known secretaries of state i would

basically put in that category -- or you can be a real policy leader. that frequently means, it inevitably means, questioning and challenging what the bureaucracy serves up to you. but i think if you -- if you don't perform that role, then you're not performing to the expectation of being a senior official in the government. that's why i say there are two basic philosophies of how you perform in government here. if you want to promote somebody who reads talking points, that's fide. let me say, i believe the president should basically get his nominee for executive branch positions. but if that's what you want, that's the defense, as i just read my talking points, that's the way she'll be as secretary of state, too. >> well, maybe we should have written submission to not have people go on television to explain these things. >> why have a secretary of state? why not just have the -- >> greta: the first question i would have asked, if someone was briefing me, how do you know

that? >> exactly. >> greta: especially in the face of something so bizarre, it was so obvious. not just with 20/20 hindsight. most people thought it was a terrorist attack at first. if i was being briefed, someone told me it was a video, a protest, i would say, it didn't look like that to me, how do you know that? >> what's served up as the bureaucracy you take as the alpha and omega or it's the beginning of discussion. for me, i certainly got in my trouble with the burr recreation ibureaucracy, itwas the beginnie conversation, not the end of the conversation. there's other questions here. i still want to know, why didn't hillary clinton go on five morning talk shows? that question still hasn't been answered. her taking responsibility for what happened in benghazi on the day of the last presidential debate in my opinion doesn't answer the question. where was hillary clinton on september 16th?

>> greta: obviously we're all sort of playing the game, who will be the next secretary of state to replace secretary clinton. many think it's going to be ambassador rice, but senator john kerry had sort of been the thought for many, many thoughts until recently. your thoughts on senator john kerry being the secretary of state as opposed to ambassador rice as a nominee? >> i'm always in favor of u.s. ambassadors to the u.n. making something of themselves when they-- when they finish their job at the u.n. you know, if the president wants to have a fight that he thinks he can win, he can certainly get a fight with susan rice. and let's be crass about this. i think the president thinks he's on a roll. i think he thinks republicans gearing fold like a cheap suit on taxes and entitlements. i think ultimately he thinks they'll fold on susan rice, too. so my guess is, he nominates her, he thinks he's going to win, and emerges stronger. i'll just say this. if republicans want to take a position on susan rice, they better be prepared to think

through the implications and not hand the president a victory that he doesn't deserve. >> greta: ambassador, thank you, sir. >> thank you. >> greta: now to the growing threat of the fiscal cliff. today on the senate floor, minority leader mitch mcconnell abusing president obama -- accusing president obama of being back on the campaign trail instead of working with lawmakers. have you seen anything to indicate that we are close to a resolution, or even moving in that direction? >> i haven't. it's hard to come to a resolution when one of the parties to that isn't around. the president, as you mentioned, is out on the campaign trail again. >> greta: you're referring to his trip this friday to pennsylvania. >> right. you've got to have presidential leadership to do big things. that's what we need right now. obviously republicans are here, ready to go to work, ready to solve the issue of the fiscal cliff. what the president wants to do, however, is to raise taxes on small businesses, almost

a million small businesses who employee 25% of the workforce. that's his proposal. republicans cannot be for that. the president said in his press conference right after the election that his number one priority is jobs and the economy. we agree with that. but if your number one priority is jobs and the economy, you don't grow the economy and create jobs by raising taxes on small businesses, the very people who create those jobs. >> greta: white house press secretary today jay carney when asked when the next meeting with congressional members would be, the answer was, quote, it would come at the appropriate time. >> nobody knows what that means. >> greta: that's my point. look, all of you have had a vacation, campaigning, doing that for the last three months. you've been about this fiscal cliff for a year and a half. now the president is going out to do, as you say, campaigning. the press secretary says there will be a meeting between leaders at the appropriate time. the appropriate time seems like pretty much right now. >> well, it is.

what you're seeing by the president and democrats is an attempt to run out the clock. i think they think they gain leverage if the pressure builds toward the end of the year. frankly you're hearing a lot of prominent democrats saying we should go over the fiscal cliff and let taxes go up, which would be a huge mistake in terms of the economy. we've got lots of analysts that have looked at it, economists have said, if that happens, you'll reduce economic growth, you'll lose jobs, you're going to lower take-home pay for americans. it is a big mistake to do the president knew that in 2010 when the economy was weak. the economy is even weaker now than it was in 2010. >> greta: another no surprise surprise the debt ceiling of $16.3 trillion. we're going to hit that at the end of december. the treasury can do some sort of phi nagling so we're not out of credit until mid-february, just when most americans are expecting the federal government to pay their tax refunds. at least right now with the debt

ceiling as it is, there's no money to pay the tax refund. >> right. as you pointed outer, this debt ceiling issue, $16.4 trillion that you're going to exceed, and they'll use, quote, extraordinary measures or tools they have available to -- >> greta: let's face it. if you don't have any more money, you have no more money -- you can't even borrow, have no more credit, that means you're cooking the books somehow. >> exactly. republicans have said, we're willing to work with you on the fiscal cliff issues, on the debt ceiling, all those things, but we have to do something about what's causing the debt, and that's runaway federal spending. the problem isn't that we tax too little, we spend too much. >> greta: the democrats wanted the taxes to go on the rich, those over $250,000, and we still have the structural problem in that it doesn't solve the problems.

it solves the problems for eight or nine days. do they say anything about that? >> no. if you raise taxes, they think you'll get more revenue, $68 billion, which actually funds the government for less than a week, but you give all that revenue back in the form of lower economic growth. i mean, you're going to lose growth in the economy. that's what generates more government revenue, is more economic growth. >> greta: even if you give them that money, still you only fund eight days. if you let them tax the rich, you still only have eight days, still have the same infrastructure and same sort of economic structure of our country unless we do something about it, we're cooked. >> right. we can't -- republicans cannot be for anything that doesn't involve entitlements. you've got to reform entitlement programs. that's got to be on the table. so far the president has been unwilling to lead on that issue. i know a lot of his outside groups, allies in congress, don't want him to take leadership on entitlements. if you don't deal with the issue

of entitlement reform you haven't done anything to solve the problem. you can raise taxes on the rich, but that gets you enough revenue to fund the government for less than a week. >> greta: people don't realize taxing the rich won't change our problem at all. >> no, it doesn't. it's a short term -- it sounds popular politically maybe it is, but the fact of the matter is it doesn't solve the problem. the american people want us to solve the problem. that requires presidential leadership. >> greta: one quick question. we have a new member of the south dakota hall of fame i understand in your sports, your father. some good news. the good news, your father. >> yeah, it is. my dad will be 93 next month. he had a great career, high school and college, was a three-year starter at the university of minnesota as a basketball player. >> greta: there's his picture. >> very humble guy. there he is, that's right. also world war ii fighter pilot. he was out here a few years ago, and we got a chance to take him around. >> greta: we end on that good news. thanks. >> thank you, greta.

>> greta: food? minority whip john collins going on the record accusing the obama administration of a obama cover-up. we spoke with senator kyl earlier tonight. why do you think so many republican senators are interested in benghazi, democrats aren't, some organizations are, some are not? >> well, it's a bad story for the administration. if you're a friend of the administration, or supporter, you want to subly mate the whole story. if you're an republican, you want to know what happened. americans were killed. there were calls for security, and nothing happened. who made the decisions? what does taking responsibility mean? it means, first of all, acknowledging what happened. and so far this administration has -- i'll say it -- been engaged in a coverdown. >> greta: why is it so hard to get information? is it because it was election season, the house and senate has

been out campaigning, the president has been out campaigning? we're now two-plus months into this, and this is -- for lack of a better word -- four homicide. >homicides. >> you have it right. for a while attention was focused on the presidential campaign, succeeded in not letting the story get out until after the campaign. it's now december, and there's still no report for something that happened back in september. there's a reason why the information isn't coming out, and it's because the administration doesn't want it to come out. they can be effective at slow-rolling everybody, changing their stories, and hiding behind there's an fbi investigation going on so we can't talk about. >> greta: what i don't like, and correct me if i'm wrong, it seems like that a lot of conversation on capitol hill is done behind closed doors. i'm always suspicious that things are overclassified as a way to protect the american

people from hearing some information. it really isn't classified. am i wrong? >> i watch you religiously, and you make that point every time. you're right, except that there are some sources and methods that have to be -- >> greta: some. >> -- protected, classified. >> greta: i agree with some. >> but not nearly to the extent it's been done here. much of this could be put out in the open, you're right. they start with classified hearings. hopefully eventually it has to come out into open hearings and open testimony by the administration officials. they've got to stop hiding behind this notion there's an fbi investigation going on. this was an act of war. this wasn't just a crime committed. and at some point it's fine for the fbi to have the matter under investigation, but the american people have a right to know what happened here when the secretary of state and the president of the united states had both taken responsibility for the death of these four people, and now ambassador rice has issued a statement saying she was wrong in what she told the american people on five television

stations on -- what was it? five days after september 11th. >> greta: i realize you're leaving the united states senate, won't be voting on the next secretary of state, but i'm curious today secretary rice was -- ambassador rice was here, and spoke to three senators, and also senator lieberman. all done behind closed doors. your thoughts on this? >> obviously she has to tell her story publicly. she has to tell why, as intelligent as she is, prominent position as u.n. ambassador, having full access to national intelligence, it wasn't hidden from her, she nevertheless went out and made the statement she did. she now acknowledges it was wrong. surely she had some inkling shwasn't what happened. surely she read the intelligence

information before she went out and spoke to the american people. apparently now we're getting stories about what that intelligence contained at the time. lot thing that confuses me, you've now had three different conflicting stories as to who did what when within the administration, intelligence community, secretary of state's office, the white house. obviously we need to get to the bottom of it. it's not all about ambassador rice. it's about the white house operation, the political operation, the president himself, and as i said the secretary of state, who does have responsibility for security at the embassies. >> greta: fiscal cliff, house republicans, a very important decision. democrats here in the united states senate, and the president. do the senate republicans have any sort of active role in this discussion on the fiscal cliff? >> yes. obviously we're leaning to speaker john boehner and the house, the republican negotiating position, and the president representing the democrats in both the house and senate, to make the -- to kind of present the -- their

conclusions to the rest of us, but it still has to be voted on in the house of representatives, the republican house members need to support it for it to pass. in the senate, it's not just enough for 51 democratic senators to be supportive. the rules here permit the minority to have some rights. at least we still have some rights until the rules are changed. as a result we do have a voice. it has to be something that's acceptable to senate republicans as well as house republicans. >> greta: have you seen any indication that senator harry reid wants to cut any of the spending? >> no, no. >> greta: none? >> you never get him to talk about reducing spending by a dime. it's always about adding revenue. they're not even satisfied to have more money. they have to specify where it comes from. rich people have to pay it as a result of an increase in tax rates, otherwise we don't want it. now, that's kind of theology rather than policy, it's seems to me. >> greta: senator, nice to see you. >> thank you, greta.

>> greta: straight ahead, another surprise about obamacare, and it's not a good one. if you're in a particular group you're about to get stuck with higher costs. are you in that specific group? find out next. also just as the nation is headed full speed toward the fiscal cliff, what is president obama doing? he's headed out of town, but he's not the only one. so is anyone in washington actually working on a solution? that's coming up. plus, if you like ghost stories, don't miss this one. stay tuned for a real-life ghost story.

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with chase quickdeposit. just snap a picture, hit send and done. take a step forward and chase what matters. >> greta: many young audits are about to feel the pain of obamacare big time. if you're between 18 and 24 years old, the healthcare law will unfairly stick you with higher premiums. dennis, how is that younger

people in this age group are hit harder, or higher premiums? >> so obamacare has new rules going in in 2014, and actturarial firm studied, this and the young will bear a bigger burden of the cost increases. 18 to 24 years old, your premium costs could go up 45% in 2014. 25-29, your premium could go up 35% more. if you're 50, your costs will fall 5%. over 60, down 13%. the elderly healthcare costs are five times to six times as high as a cost for a 20-year-old, yet we're giving them price breaks -- i say them, me -- charging more to younger people, yet older people earn far more.

>> greta: if i was 18 or 19 years old, i wish, why in the world would i buy healthcare? because i can pay the penalty of about $700, and should i get sick i can always go out and buy insurance because i can get it for a pre-existing problem. >> exactly. >> greta: and if i don't buy into that pool, that reduces the entire pool to keep the cost down for everybody. >> bingo. where he need the young involved in the insurance pool to help pay so it spreads the cost outright. they're 31% of the market. 40% of the uninsured in this country are 18 to 30 years old, 18 to 34. okay? let's take the case of the 22-year-old waitress that's in a forbes.com article based on the actuarial firm's study. the individual policy, not a work policy, $2,068. obamacare in 2014 lives that to

$3,000 for this young 22-year-old, a 45% increase. now average medical costs of a 20-year-old, someone in that age rage, $1600 a year. the penalty kicks in at 2016. the firm that ran these numbers said half a million, people in their 20s, will quit insurance as a result when they see a big price increase, they'll decide, i'll wait f , if i get hit by a bus, i'll buy insurance afterwards. this is a mess for the system. young, healthy people, that don't cost a lot, contributing to the system, where we need to take down the cost of the elderly care. >> greta: you referred to this as a, quote, new rule. i take it this was not in the original law that they voted on capitol hill, that this is something that hhs has added into it, and that's irony of it, that whatever they voted on, it's still being created now. >> even the bill, which i think ran 2,000 pages, i mean pelosi

admitted in congress, after we vote to approve it, well, then we'll read it. all the rules come out. here's the reason for the rules. in 42 states in this country you're allowed as an insurer to charge an old person five times more, or even more than that, you charge a young person for the same insurance coverage, because the older person has five times as much cost in their healthcare coverage. they get sick a lot more than someone in their 20s. the obamacare rule comes along and says that even 42 states allow five times as much for an old as one, you'll have to do it only three times. you cannot charge elderly people under obamacare any more than three times as much as you charge a young person in their 20s. that changed from five times as much that 42 states allowed to only three times as much is forcing this 45% increase on people 18-24 years old, or whatever the chart showed. >> greta: you say they're new rules. this is what hhs has created? >> goes into effect under

obamacare in 2014. it's set there. there might be a position to change that 5-1, 3-1, go back up, but so far obamacare has said 5-1. it sounds good politics, we won't let insurers charge more for the elderly people. >> greta: and the younger people pick it up. >> and 60% voted for obama! >> greta: dennis, thank you. >> thank you. >> greta: coming up, we're bumping up against the national debt ceiling. what are the president and politicians doing? they're leaving for town. also, can companies survive if the plunge happens off the fiscal cliff? hear how one businessman is getting ready. it's a new day.

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his own personal approach to the short and long-term fiscal challenges we face. in other words, rather than sitting down with lawmakers of both parties and working out an agreement, he's back on the campaign trail, presumably with the same old talking points that we're all quite familiar with. >> greta: senate minority leader mitch mcconnell blasting president obama for leaving washington during a crisis, but the president's not the only one taking his fiscal cliff show on the road. house republicans are also planning to tour the country taking their message to small businesses. so why isn't anyone staying in washington to get the job done? joining us our political panel, rick klein, bob kousa and byron york. byron, where is everybody? >> we don't want to be around the table, trying to hammer something out. i kind of agree with senator mcconnell that the president is going to do a bunch of talking points, go up to pennsylvania, and i think go to the manufacturer of tinker toys.

so it should be a nice photo op and everything, but won't get anything done. also the president campaigned on a platform of raising taxes. that's kind of unusual that he did it, and he won. so he already has a victory to say, look -- >> greta: he has a victory, but we still have a fiscal cliff problem. he may have his political victory, but we still have the problem. >> yeah, we do, but congress has a nasty habit of procrastination, and this is no exception. you need christmas, exhaustion to play a role here, where members are tired and want to go home to get christmas gifts for their families. i don't think you'll see a deal until after christmas. >> greta: they knew about this problem in august of 12. that'2011. that's a year and a half.

are we doing our job in this matters to a lot of american people. >> yeah. >> and they designed the fiscal cliff to be this point that -- pivot point where people would negotiate up to it. i think what's interesting here, you know, there's an outside gain in politics and an inside gain. now you've got the president going out, playing the outside game, trying to bring pressure outside in, when this is going tto be settled inside. one by one, working with members of congress. if you've seen the movie "lincoln," that's exactly what he does in the new spielberg movie, he has to work in the real world of politics. >> greta: what does president obama gain by being out of town, what do the republicans gain for being out of town, when they need to be sitting around the table, number one? even jay carney says they'll meet, quote, at the appropriate time," which i thought was rather offensive, whatever that means. >> the republican thing is me to-i mean. >> greta: you too, care? >> there's no single leader of

the republican party, no way they can match the effect that the president will get. the thing -- >> greta: i'd show up at the gate, the door. >> these guys have done this before. all the same people have sat around trying to make a really big deal and came away with a bitter feeling about it all. >> greta: get over it. that's your job. get over it. >> yeah, but remember that president obama said you can't change washington from the inside, so i guess he has to go outside. in all honesty, they've been discussing these issues. they could get a deal in two or three days. these are not issues. it's political will. it's convincing members. this will be one of the toughest votes we've seen in decades, whenever some deal comes to the house and senate floors. >> greta: how about the debt ceiling? >> that's brought back into this. we'll do it again in the spring. democrats say it has to be part of the negotiatek now, because we don't want to go back to all of this again. >> greta: we hit the debt

ceiling at the end of december when they're home, so they want to do it now so they don't have to come back at the end of the year. >> it's a different dynamic, republicans are willing to play more around the debt ceiling. that's one reasons the democrats want to take care of it now. republicans would rather leave that for later. >> the story is going to be, i think, it's going to shift a little bit from republicans trying to make their way toward more revenues or agreeing to a higher tax rate for the top earners to democrats trying to do something about spending. i mean, there are a number of democrats who say we won, we won on a platform of raising taxes. we did not win on a platform of big across the board spending, entitlement cuts. so we're not going to go there. >> the problem is, give them -- if you factor into it, hip pottically give them a tax raise, that's enough for eight days.

it doesn't change that. i don't understand why they don't care about that? >> now democrats are saying social security should not be on the table. some democrats say medicare should not be on the table. republicans aren't going to give away taxes, whether it's rates or withholdings unless they get meaningful entitlement reforms. >> i think for the piece of the tax fight that matters here it's a matter of principle. >> greta: it's called grudge. >> no. it's called winning. he campaigned on this around the country. to back away from that -- >> greta: even if he gets it, it's doesn't the problem. that's the irony. >> you need a lot of pieces. this is the one critical piece from the democrats' perspective. >> he did not campaign on solving the long-term problem. if people wanted to do that, they could have elected paul ryan they did. >> he did campaign on it, the tax base and -- >> greta: it's sort part of the

job, leadership for all of them, economic stewardship of the country. i mean, it's a little bit part of the job. >> the whole job. that's what we're they're here to do. >> greta: i'm being sarcastic. >> that's what bill woodward said, that clinton got it done. he can't lose this negotiation after winning re-election. >> we have by washington standards a long time to nothing out. this next month will go by really slowly. >> greta: the problem is we do need tax code reform, both democrats and republicans, and they won't do that in the next month. they've known for a year and a half this problem would arise. that's where i go back, have we held their feet to the fire? they aren't going to solve the problem and have known about it and haven't done it. >> that's right. they'll put a structure in place to get it done early. >> greta: very good at that. >> there's no doubt there's republican crumbling i think on the highest tax rate.

you'll see some change on that. >> greta: gentlemen, thank you. or actually stand by. up next, a look ahead to 2016. are there some big players under the radar, names you might not expect or didn't think about. the panelists make their picks. that's next. in two minutes, do you believe in ghosts? before you answer that question, you have to see more of the of s video. that's two minutes away. ♪

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>> greta: our panel's picks for 2016 in just a second, but first headlines. >> more than 200,000 people gathering at cairo's tahrir square. the protesters demanding egypt's president mohamed morsi revoke the autocratic powers he gave himself last week. they accuse him of trying to become an all-powerful ruler like his predecessor, hosenie mubarak, a three-decade-long regime. bob dole spending the night at walter reed medical center. a spokesman says the 89-year-old doell checked himself in to undergo a routine procedure. he's said to be doing very well, expected to leave the hospital tomorrow. mr. doell spent 10 months at walter reed after suffering from pneumonia after knee surgery.

now back to "on the record" with ingredienta. >> greta: 2016, it's time to start watching potential candidates. there are the predictables, but there might be surprises. who might the surprises be? we're back with our political panel. rick, surprises in 2016, your thoughts? >> i have 2013 on the mind right now a little bit. chris christie is clearly in the top ranks of contenders. he got a 70% approval rating in new jersey. the national numbers are quite a bit different, particularly after his embrace of president obama, but that of politics being local, building that forward, if he's able to win re-election in new jersey, he goes in with a head of steam into the next presidential cycle. a lot of folks on the democratic side are looking to the governors. one senator i'm keeping an eye on, particularly as the fiscal negotiations go on, and that's mark warner, senator from virginia. he bowed out of the possibility of running for governor in virginia, an office he held in

the past. he's a possible leader on the fiscal cliff talks right now, leave him well positioned, someone to keep an eye on. >> greta: bob? >> two women. senator kirsten gillibrand from new york is all for hillary clinton in 2016, but if hillary clinton doesn't run, watch gillrgillibrand. she has those aspirations. on the republican side, nick kid smoking haley from south carolina, 40 years old. the republicans need a new face, and this would be a change of direction. she literally is respected by the right. >> i wrote down a list of 13 republican names -- by the way, when senator thune was walking out, i said would you like me to add your name to this list? he said no. >> cross one out. >> i pick scott walker actually, scott walker, governor of wisconsin, is the guy who actually did what a lot of republicans want to do, which is he took on the entrenched interests behind the spending

that's killing a lot of states, is hurting our own federal deficit. so i think scott walker is someone who can say, look, i've done this, it was not easy, and i succeeded. as far as democrats are concerned, it's really a far less wide-open race, i think, than with republicans, simply because you have this hillary clinton decision out there, whether she does or doesn't. if she doesn't, i think you might have some democrats saying, you know, we won with the senator the last timing, but that's really, really unusual. governors are good. and martin o'malley of maryland, brian schweitzer of montana are two possibilities. >> greta: i think governor o'malley, a big choice, obviously someone people have their eyes on, but also cory booker, a mayor on the democratic side from newark, new jersey. we'll see a lot of corey booker. on the republican side, a woman, governor, suzanna martinez from the state of new mexico. i think she's someone to keep our eye on, because i think her speech at the republican

national convention was one that wowed somebody. >> open races on both sides, which makes it fun. >> or joe biden. >> greta: that's right. he said he might run as well. do you think hillary's in? >> gosh, you know, she would be the same age as ronald reagan when he was -- when he became president, a couple months younger. it's entirely possible. i mean, everybody says how tired she looks now. she's got a while to take naps, rest some. joe biden would be 74 years old on inauguration day, by far the oldest president. >> greta: panel, thank you. straight ahead, can america's small businesses survive a plunge off the fiscal cliff? we ask one businessman. you have to hearyo what he told us. that's next. ons and a santa to boot! [ chuckles ] right, baby. oh, sir. that is a customer. oh...sorry about that. [ male announcer ] break from the holiday stress. fedex office.

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>> greta: we are crashing up against our nation debt keeling and about to fall off the fiscal cliff. right now, millions of small business owners are on the edge of their seats and trying to figure out how the fiscal cliff impacts their businesses. griff jenkins speak was the vice president and general manager of family owned company, princeton tech. >> we've been making products for the military over 10 years now. the military is being a u.s. manufacture they came to us, saw our product at various retailers, our headlamps and

said that is a great headlamp. make changes and it will be a better headlamp for the military. >> sek quest traigs then, can military cuts which seem to be forth coming could then force troops to have to buy their own headlamp? >> yes. we're seeing it already. >> already? >> yes. >> we're seeing it where budget comes are coming into play. we're getting calls from troops and things that, where can i buy the product? i need to buy 144 of them. we're sending them to places because they don't have the budget. they need the product. the government not giving them budget to buy. >> you make the military lights, you make the outdoor sports, hiking that sort of stuff. you make scuba diving lights. you make industrial lights. what percentage is military? >> about 20% of the business. >> about 20%. is it fair to say that is going to be hardest hit? >> yeah. yes.

the uncertainty in that arena is -- we're not sure what direction to go. >> what do you think could be your greatest challenge here? >> um, greatest challenge is continuing to forecast, you know products we need and being able to dhifr on time to retailers. you know with this uncertainty it's going to be hard. you know, to really forecast out. >> do you feel personally that maybe the folks in washington need to really dig deep and better understand what business and jus like you across this country are facing? when you look at the cuts, the health care? the military contacts in your case? >> yes. i think they need to look at the american manufacturer which is few and far between anymore. it affects us. >> and anybody trying to make goods in america. and we're trying to bring the economy back. and yet they're making it more difficult for us. >> the reality of the fiscal

cliff could you have to cut jobs? >> correct. yes. we're worried about that. business is great now. but if production has to slow down, and the orders stop coming in, people are not spending extra money for products. yes. >> do you have any idea of what will determine that? what percentage you can be looking at? >> at this time, no. we'll just have to watch it closely come january. you know? and see where we are. you know we're in the holiday season now. it's a busy time for us. but after that, we'll have to watch closely to see where we can go. we don't want to lose any of our employees because they value them, greatly. >> greta: coming up how is the fiscal cliff like a horror movie is in the answer coming up next. two years ago, the people of bp made a commitment to the gulf. bp has paid over twenty-three billion dollars to help those affected and to cover cleanup costs. today, the beaches and gulf are open, and many areas are reporting

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>> greta: 11:00 is almost here, flash studio lights, it's time for last call. abc's jake tapper says he has an idea how the fiscal crisis will end. here is what he told steven colbert. >> what is everybody talking about? fiscal cliff? >> yes. >> trillions of dollars of spending cuts and tax increases that are going to happen when the ball drops on new year's eve unless president obama and congress come to a compromise. >> all right. so we're all doomed?. >> it's like the movie "saw" you have to cutoff your arm or die. so the day will come, they'll